Boutique-fulldemper - Valgets kvaler.

Noen som har testet den nye luftdemperen fra Magura forresten?
Espen

Det er kjipt både for selgere av rammer, og ikke minst for kunden at demperen som følger med enten er ubrukelig, eller fungerer dårlig.

Hvis jeg var en vanlig kunde, ville jeg ville blitt relativt sur hvis 18k ramma jeg kjøpte, ble levert med en rævva demper.

Liten tvil om at mye av godfølesen og ytelsen til en ramme ligger i en god demper.


Noen som har testet den nye luftdemperen fra Magura forresten?


Espen

Siden Fox er så himla A4 for dagen, skal jeg prøve meg med en DT SSD-demper om ikke lenge. Blir spennende å se - jeg antar at den er flottiflott(*), og at den ikke ståe tilbake for en Float eller RP3 (nå RP23) i det hele tatt. Taim vill sjåvv.

(* = "Sa brura")

negative spring

The spring that acts against the positive spring. It serves to reduce the overall spring rate at the start of the travel to ensure a reasonable response characteristic. Negative springs are used primarily in air springs on bicycles. Because air negative springs have proven susceptible to failure, the DT Swiss shocks use a failsafe, cold-resistant elastomer material from automotive manufacturing.

Stååååålfjæææææææær!

Det er kjipt både for selgere av rammer, og ikke minst for kunden at demperen som følger med enten er ubrukelig, eller fungerer dårlig.

Hvis jeg var en vanlig kunde, ville jeg ville blitt relativt sur hvis 18k ramma jeg kjøpte, ble levert med en rævva demper.

Liten tvil om at mye av godfølesen og ytelsen til en ramme ligger i en god demper.

Espen

Lykke til! De bruker en kort negativfjær av elastomer, så du får en negativfjær som ikke har riktig stivhet for akkurat deg, og som ikke er med hele veien igjennom vandringen, og som blir stivere jo kaldere det er (som sikkert er fint hvis du har for vane å legge på deg masse om vinteren).

Among other things, the upper pivot rotation affects the suspension leverage rate. It's a topic we could spend weeks discussing, so I've asked Hans (who in our company is most familiar with the similarities/difference between VPP and DW) is he could comment on this without writing something as long as War and Peace.
Here's what he said:
"The curve for the VPP shock leverage rate is shaped like a smile and the DW is shaped like a frown. When you add those curves to the air spring curve (with its ramp at the end), they end up feeling very different.
The frown face DW curve actually helps to smooth the air ramp at the end of the stroke and provide a more linear progression throughout, making it easier to control the sag point etc.
The VPP and the DW both have Anti Squat performance of around 100% bob cancellation at sag in climbing gears. When you push on the suspension, they feel really different though, the VPP has a soft initial and mid stroke where the DW is pretty consistent throughout the travel. In my experience it's easier to bunny hop a DW link bike since you can push against the suspension effectively. On the other hand the VPP moves really easily over the small and medium size bumps. Both designs could probably be modified or tuned to change all this, so it's not absolute, just the way they are currently built."

Again, this is only one aspect of how the suspension works, you can look at http://ibiscycles.com/mountain/dw_link/ for a bit more info.
Cheers,
Scot

Scot and Hans answered the DW vs. VPP linkage difference well.




I feel that the 5.5 VPP (I demoed an Intense version) is very progressive in compression compared to a more linear feel to the DW using the same shock set to lightest compression resistance. I feel that the DW handles corners and g-outs much better with more even compression of the rear with the fork, the VPP compresses more in the rear in coasting compression situations and handling feels weird to me. Small changes in spring resistance makes minor handling changes with the DW. Small changes of the VPP is huge, there is a very small range or sweet-spot of spring sag and compression damping that works best with VPP both for handling and pedaling, the sag range for optimization is much larger with DW. With the DW I can run firmer preload and higher sag for quicker handling and better climbing geometry, then relax a turn or two preload (or lower air pressure) and run more slack and soft for DH without a huge handling change, wallow is not much different. VPP doesn’t tolerate sag change very well, only damping could be softened for VPP for better bump compliance but with more wallow.




The pedaling feel is different too. The VPP set with optimum sweet-spot sag (about 30%) pedals very smooth with no perceptible pedal feed back until seated and pedaling through travel that compresses more than about 1/2 travel, then it progressively stalls cadence noticeably as travel becomes deeper than 2/3rds. The DW has no noticeable pedal feedback when sag is 25% or deeper in any condition. When I tried very shallow sag, about 20%, maybe less, I could notice a very light pedal kick hitting sharp bumps.




Braking is about the same with the 5.5 VPP as a low monopivot with about 2 inches less travel. With the DW I've never experienced more grip and lack of skidding with the rear tire when hard braking downhill through stutter bumps, perhaps longer travel DH geometry bikes are as good or better.




I think the only advantage VPP has over the DW is when standing and pedaling hard to accelerate in a racing type situation. The VPP doesn't bob at all in the big ring and actually extends and launches the rider weight forward in the middle (and granny if ever there while standing). The VPP may be an advantage getting race start hole-shots and passing other riders. The DW is not squishy at all, but on flat smooth ground you can see the DW does comply a small amount to rider's hard down stroke and doesn't extend and launch during hard standing acceleration. It's easy to stand and pedal through rough terrain on the DW, the VPP stiffens, there's not noticeable stiffening with the DW. The DW complies to bumps very smoothly with very little wallow set with fastest compression damping, it's the same bump compliance whether pedaling or coasting.




I like Intense, and still have a Tracer. I would have bought a 5.5 or 6.6 VPP if it was better. The Mojo is a stand out better trail bike than any VPP or other designs.